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Welcome to The Catalyst, an exciting and insightful podcast produced by Northeast Iowa Community College. I'm your host, Amy Lasack. Together, we'll explore the people, programs, and partnerships that make Northeast Iowa Community College unique. From student success stories to behind the scenes info about athletics, innovation and industry collaboration. Each episode dives deeper into your community's college. Get ready for an inside look at the impact of community driven education at Nic.
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Well, hello and welcome to this very special Halloween themed edition of The Catalyst. I'm your host, Amy Lezak. I am so excited about today's episode. Today we're stepping into the shadows. Not to scare anybody, but to really understand. We're exploring what lies beyond the ordinary with the founders of the Great River Investigative Paranormal Society, or grips their team of passionate investigators who seek to honor and remember those who have gone before us and maybe, just maybe, to hear what they have to say.
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So before we dive into the mysteries they've uncovered, I want to introduce our guests. First is, Linda for drainage. Got it. Okay. You got it, Peter. Well. Thank you. Back in 2005, Linda and two friends began to explore the paranormal. The three worked together and would talk and discuss all strange happenings they'd seen on TV, or heard through stories by friends or relatives.
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The more the more they chatted, the more curious they became. So ghost hunters, which I know has been a favorite within my family for many years, made them realize average people using common sense, willingness to explore patience and openness to adventure could research the paranormal. They started out at cemeteries, their own homes, public parks with a history of tragic events and what they came across.
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Only their curiosity. Even more so in 2006, they became the great River Investigative Paranormal Society. Our other guest is Tim McEwen. He's an investigator technician. Tim has always had an interest in getting answers. What happens to our consciousness after the world may be the second most elusive answer to being why we're here. Learning what will happen may help us answer why we're here.
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Tim approaches everything with an open mind, ready to accept new concepts and ideas, while also maintaining a deep rooted skepticism to add the balance. So welcome to both of you. Really excited to have a conversation with you today. And thank you. Thank you. So, I know grips has partnered with Nike in the past. Actually, just a couple weeks ago, you offered a class through Nick at the Masonic Temple in Dubuque.
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I've heard great things about it. I'd love to learn a little bit more from the both of you. On what drew you in initially to Paranormal Investigation, and how that got you to be this team here in Dubuque for, gosh, almost 19 years now. So, Linda, we'll start with you. Well, to be quite honest, all my life I've experienced different items that could not be explained.
00:03:06:28 - 00:03:36:20
I guess you might say it piqued my curiosity that watching a show like, Ghost Hunters gave me the idea that, oh my gosh, I can actually kind of pay attention and maybe communicate in a way that I could prove. Unfortunately, that isn't as easy as it sounds, but, and I will admit, it just kind of makes me always want to try to reach into the unknown and maybe get an answer.
00:03:36:23 - 00:03:57:29
But I also realize it's it's going to take some doing. Yeah, a little bit learning along the way, too. I'm having Jess, Tim, what about you? What got you into this? Well, I am a very gnostic soul. So, whatever's going on around me, even if it's not around me, I want to know what it is, how it is.
00:03:58:02 - 00:04:26:05
And I'm a great with believing things and then trying to figure out I'll believe first, and then I'll try to figure out the meaning behind it. You know, as a child. Hey, you got my nose. Okay, great. You got my nose. Until I can prove you don't, you know, right, right. And I that's the way I approach things like, if you tell me your story that, you know, you think your cat is still in the house, and the cat's been passed for 13 years.
00:04:26:08 - 00:04:51:03
I'm going to believe you. I want to come in there. I want to experience what you're experiencing. So I'll start there. And. But then as things move along, I am going to do my darndest to debunk, debunk, debunk, find reasons, find excuses, find some something that might have caused that shadow to go down those stairs. If I can't, it's even more exciting.
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That's awesome. So as I was researching a little bit before talking to you today, one of the things that came across to me in my reading is that you you make it very clear that spirits should be treated as life. People. So I'm wondering if you could tell me a little bit more about that. Well, that's because honestly, if there is a spirit, it should be a spirit of somebody who passed and they were a live person and, you know, their past life and they should not be treated with disrespect.
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And that's why we kind of treat them. We also understand their personalities also kind of come through. So they might be a pleasant person or they might be just somebody that has no sense of humor at all or might be a little vicious. So we try to treat them that way and accept them as a new friend.
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And that's why we try to even go back to a location multiple times to kind of build a rapport with the spirits, because, well, sometimes if you meet somebody the first time, you're not sure if you like them or not, don't want to talk to them. And that's kind of how we treat the spirits. We want them to trust us.
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So if we say we're going to come back or we're going to do this or leave or whatever, we do exactly what we say and give them the confidence that we respect them and we want them to respect us, and we want to communicate. That's fascinating that when you're talking a little bit about how you can get their personality.
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Oh, yeah. Coming through to, so what what is it that you see that can tell you about their personality or what kind of feeling or what are you hearing that can tell you a little bit about that person? Sometimes, you know, like, oh, it's hard to explain. They join in with what we talk and I one of our techniques, if you will, like when we do an EV session, which is where you try to get the spirit to speak and we record it is if we gas up, we get equipment going off like crazy because they want to join in because we're people, so they want to be a part of it.
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Yes, yes. This kind of relaxes them. I know that they drop their guard and their energy then communicates, usually by the equipment. So at times we get, oh, it's so hard to explain. Sometimes we get the giggles and we can't figure out where the giggles are coming from, but I think we're picking up on their energy as they're laughing at us.
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Oh, interesting. If I'm if I'm telling a story to Linda and, and you can overhear it and I'm talking about how I witnessed the squirrel taking out this rabbit and just knocking it out of the eye, out of the garden. You're going to step in and go, wait, you said, what about a squirrel and a rabbit? Same thing.
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We will just sit there if things aren't moving along. We just chat. We talk about the farms, we talk about our jobs, we talk about personal lives. And suddenly things start going off. Stuff begins to happen. These are people. And that's the basis of our approach. We respect them as people, people that we don't know, but we might want to become friends with.
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Okay. So we don't provoke, we engage and we are in introduce ourselves, ask permission to be there. That's what we do. So as you look back at the years that you've been doing this, are there any stories that you can share with us that really just stand out to you on a really either a like a really interesting interaction or something that touched you in a certain way that, either made you emotional or just something that I or listeners might be interested in hearing about.
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Oh, for me, yes, probably my first. Real experience, I guess you might call it. Where, it took me totally by surprise, was when I went to Edinburgh Manor for the first time and we were getting a tour by Cindy, the owner. We went into this little room and she started to tell us the story of the gentleman that had resided in that room, and I stopped her before she got too far in the story.
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And I said, did he hang himself? She said, why? I said, did he hang himself? She said, yes, right where you're standing. I said, I know he's hanging above me. It's the first time I seen an apparition. Oh, wow. But I was the only one that saw it. So once again, ghost hunting is extremely personal and the spirit almost had a picture.
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Whether they're going to communicate to you or not. Wow. And now I have to admit that. And I bet you I had been ghost hunting for probably for ten years prior to that. You know, I never had anything like that. Wow. Yeah. Sam, what about you? For Cat, a few, probably one of my favorite was also at Edinburgh, where we were all upstairs.
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And, you know, we'd done sweeps through the entire building. Check with K2 is looking for hot spots for the electricity things so we don't get false readings later. And suddenly I had this need to go downstairs to check out the dining room. It was just almost like something was pulling me there. Been down there plenty of times.
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Nothing happens down there that I've been aware of. Went down and just started snapping photographs. So I had the Nikon out, taking some with the flash saw. They were in color, some, with the ear function, which was in black and white. And in looking at the photographs, you know, get the color ones. There's nothing there. Just just a room.
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The black and white ones. There is an older gentleman sitting in a wheelchair, smoking a cigaret and an orderly standing behind him. So I was kind of called into that to take that photograph, and that was really interesting. Yeah, it's a great place. Yeah. I've heard great things. We've driven by it. My, my kids are very fascinated, by that building.
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And it sounds like they have lots of stories within the walls of that building with just two of the stories shared here. And that's one of the great things about the Dubuque area. There are lots of really historical, interesting buildings in the area that are rumored to have, different type of paranormal activities and visually in, the Grand Opera House, just to name a couple.
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Are there other buildings that stick out that you've had experience with? To be honest with you, spirits can be anywhere, not just a building. It could even be a new building, an old building. It's wherever that, oh, the energy, emotional energy of a spirit resides. And so, like I say, it's kind of interesting. It's so many different locations in Dubuque, and we have gone to a lot of places where we were told there, you know, places not haunted.
00:12:09:26 - 00:12:44:08
And we have found spirits that answer because they probably resided there for years. Nobody acknowledges them. All of a sudden they're being acknowledged and they're more excited. So they're all surprised. Yes. And somebody actually tell them, you know, serious or wanted to find them. So our spirits attached to a location, that they have a connection to at some point, or like I'm thinking of a family that might move to another state, but a loved one passed away in the original state.
00:12:44:08 - 00:13:08:12
Would that spirits stay there? Could they travel? It's. Well, it's okay if I speak on this one or go ahead, I'll let you. All right. So I think there's a lot of different schools of thought on this. A lot of people believe that spirits can can be trapped in a certain location. Often, I think we find that that is just residual energy.
00:13:08:15 - 00:13:36:09
And what if nothing else is? Because that would be a bit frightening to be trapped someplace. I think that spirits can move along and wherever they want to go. And you do not have to be Grandpa George. You want to contact him? You don't have to go to Grandpa George's. House or his grave. It just seems to me that, you know, you can contact Grandpa George anywhere, and, psychics and seances, things like that.
00:13:36:09 - 00:13:58:00
Or, you know, if you believe in that, then it gives a bit of proof that you don't have to be in a certain area. That's very true. Yeah. So, Linda, I am sure over the years that you've been doing this, you've run into a couple folks that, maybe just a little skeptical, have some fear about this or an, apprehension regarding that.
00:13:58:00 - 00:14:18:24
How do you how do you interact or how do you, converse with people that have, a little bit of fear or apprehension? Well, if they have it in their home, we offer to go there and try to relieve that fear by explaining how the spirits want to be noticed, how you can notice them and communicate to them.
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Very basically. If, on the other hand, it's somebody that is curious but doesn't want us, you know, or doesn't have a place for us to go to investigate, we actually invite them, possibly to go with us on an investigation. And usually then people go, you know, we go to some place what we deem safe, some place that we kind of already have built a rapport with the spirits that they will try to communicate with us.
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And usually most people end up being members of groups. We're going to if it's only temporary because we do have a policy, you can kind of come and go because life gets in the way. Sure. And so as long as you leave on a good standing, you're welcome back any time. That's great. That's ham. And it was interesting when you were talking a little bit about your personality of you believe and then you try to debunk along the way.
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And I'm sure you've run into skeptics along the way where they're kind of the flip side of that. They're like, prove it to me. So how do you handle that? Skepticism is. Oh, I don't care, I really don't I mean, if you want to believe or if you don't want to believe, that is entirely up to you.
00:15:35:18 - 00:15:57:23
It it doesn't offend me in any way. So, no, I'm not here to convince anybody or change anyone's mind. That's true. If you're looking for assistance, we come in with empathy. Okay? So if someone says, hey, this is scary, you know, there's there's creaky floors. There's something going on in my house. Well, then we try to help and figure out together.
00:15:57:25 - 00:16:20:06
So we join with whoever has the issue or whoever has the question. We try to join with them rather than we're not there to teach them. We're not there to convince them or change their minds. We just want to be there with them. That's great. That's great. So can you help those of us who have not been a part of an investigation visually?
00:16:20:06 - 00:16:37:00
What does that look like? There's a lot of equipment involved that sounds like. And but it also sounds like a big part of this is human intuition. And when you're talking about. I felt like I had to go to that dining room. So could each of you maybe spend a little time in telling us, what does it look like?
00:16:37:00 - 00:17:05:04
What can somebody expect? Well, the first thing we tell you, that and the ghost experience of any kind is really personal and that you yourself are the best piece of equipment you have. And your brain acts as like, EMF reader, because you can pick up on that energy. That's why sometimes you feel like somebody might be watching you, or there might be somebody standing behind you when there's nobody is because your brain is regulating or letting you know about that energy.
00:17:05:07 - 00:17:30:00
But, when we go to an investigation, too, we kind, I will ask questions and find out what you're experiencing. So I know ahead what's going on as far as what's making you maybe nervous or what you have questions on, the rest of the team will come in not knowing much more than just the location, and they will do a sweep with the equipment.
00:17:30:03 - 00:17:52:05
And then we will start, as we go through. I might match it. Oh, she said, this door comes open. Well, then we might get out a level and check the door. One person stand on one side might stop it, see if the vibration will get the door moving. I mean, we try to debunk before we just accept everything, as most people kind of.
00:17:52:07 - 00:18:23:06
Some people will just assume it's paranormal if it kind of freaks them out. Whether scarred or they were just tired and something happened, rather than look at the big picture that maybe it was just not latched in a truck went, you know, something like that we're trying to debunk. And then if we do find there's something that we can't explain, that's when the communication comes into play that we try to show them how to acknowledge, what's going on and to communicate.
00:18:23:06 - 00:18:56:27
So they're less nervous because if they are realizing it's just somebody there that they can talk to, it makes them feel more like they're in control because they know how to communicate as well. That's great. And from your perspective, what what else can you share about what these look like? Well, when we go in, if they say, you know, if, for instance, where is the door, the doors opening on its own, well, we can believe them that the door is opening, and that no one is touching that door.
00:18:56:28 - 00:19:19:00
We can. Yes, we could acknowledge that and believe them. We're there with them, for them. But yes. Then we start figuring out why it happened. And it's the why that really, it's the why that matters. Probably more than anything, the facts help people out of fear. So, you're not. Technology is not our group's backbone at all. I mean, it's more of the backup singer, okay?
00:19:19:01 - 00:19:45:18
They're just that technology's back there. It's, you know, you get your air of EMF meters, your spirit boxes, your cells, all that kind of stuff. They're useful, but only to confirm what we're already experiencing and feeling. So it's like with the camera. Okay, I felt something. I went down, camera confirmed what I was feeling. So that that is.
00:19:45:20 - 00:20:04:24
Whether you want to accept that those images are there. I mean, this isn't, in the case of my photograph, it's very much not, I don't believe pareidolia because anyone that looks at it usually sees what we're seeing in that photograph. But sometimes you can you get things that. Oh, that looks like a face over there.
00:20:04:24 - 00:20:28:01
Well, that's a tree in the background. That would be 130ft face. So that would be a little weird. But, you know, you have to look at the evidence and figure things out. And, you know, when you let people feel and touch things, when they hold the equipment and they see the lights go off it, the fear really dissipates.
00:20:28:03 - 00:20:47:18
Oh, that's that's fascinating. This. Yes. That's when it becomes fascinating. Then, yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So common sense reigns in this of a cold spot. Lines up with a draft. We don't go chasing ghosts. We close the window.
00:20:47:20 - 00:21:13:03
That's that's so true. A big part of this would be the common sense piece. And we have figure out if there are other factors. One of the questions that I've heard a lot is, is there a difference between doing an investigation during the day or at night? Is there a difference there? No. I mean, yes, well, you say yes, like the noise is the only difference.
00:21:13:05 - 00:21:38:17
Yeah. Because that at three in the morning there's no wash machines going, the traffic is quiet or even dogs are sleeping. So yes, you can hear better. Gotcha. If you're really paying attention at noon, because that's the only time you can be at a location, then you just have to rule out when you hear the truck goes by or the dogs barking at a squirrel, or somebody's got the spin cycle going down below.
00:21:38:17 - 00:22:07:24
Yeah, you know, in the basement. You just have to take those factors into consideration. But spirits are actually 24 seven. Okay. Yes. What do you what do you TM what do you feel like is the biggest misconception about being a paranormal investigator? Oh, that's not who. I would say that most of the time they figure we're a bunch of thrill hunters and thrill seekers and we're out.
00:22:07:26 - 00:22:41:26
You know, if you watch those goofy television shows, so many of them are all about, you know, showmanship. And we're actually down doing the nitty gritty and trying to figure things out and gather evidence and expand our own knowledge versus, you know, all the woo woo, showmanship that some of these shows have. You don't walk into a place and within 30 minutes, you know, start, finish an end or an hour, whatever those shows are, and have all this happen.
00:22:41:28 - 00:23:01:04
It's not the way it works. I mean, sometimes we have to go to back and forth to places three or 4 or 5 times before we start to create that rapport, before the energies start to align. If you want to go for it that way. It's it's not exciting for the most part. A lot of it's very long hours.
00:23:01:04 - 00:23:43:07
And so many times you come home with nothing, yeah. And Linda, you mentioned earlier that individuals can become members of groups. Can you talk a little bit about that? Oh, yeah. One, we like almost anyone who has a view on the paranormal, whether it varies from my personal view or Tams or whoever, because we like diversity, we also will take, since we do not provoke, we will take younger members as long as their parents are also members, because we've had, people maybe about 14 join us.
00:23:43:10 - 00:24:03:00
And it's really kind of fun because they have a lot more energy. Like, I'm a little bit up there in age. So my energy level for the spirits to use may not be as inviting as you get a 16 year old that is laughing and having a good time, that gives a lot of positive energy to the spirits.
00:24:03:02 - 00:24:28:07
So we do kind of wish anybody who wants to try the paranormal. That's why we do a class with NICC to show them one how you can get the energy up there and it can draw spirits, and that's where you get your, communication or your chance to communicate. And it does open one's eyes that it just takes energy and willingness to try.
00:24:28:10 - 00:24:49:14
That's great. And so if somebody's interested, you do have a website, grip's domain. Individuals can go out there, learn a little bit more and then connect with you. That might be members. It's one of those things where we welcome anybody to come and join us, at least to a meeting to see if we kind of connect.
00:24:49:16 - 00:25:15:05
We've had times where we will rent a location just for training. Because we want to see how a person reacts. Because when you're in a room with a bunch of strangers in the dark, it can be a little frightening by itself. Sure. And that's why we kind of, train what we know works for us, which is not provoking.
00:25:15:05 - 00:25:21:11
Be impatient and just willing to sit and see what happens
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when you know you're willing.
00:25:27:04 - 00:25:42:09
I have a short little game for us to play this one. Haunt or hoax. I'm going to read a comment. We'll alternate between the two of you and if the trade statement is true, it would be a haunt. If the statement is false, it's a hoax.
00:25:42:12 - 00:26:08:27
Our camera team will start with you. Quote. Oh, great. Yeah. Cold spots mean a spirit is nearby. Is that a haunt or a hoax? That's insufficient to have is evidence. I don't get it. So I'm thinking trick question. I, I can like commit to a yes or no answer on that one. That is just simply insufficient evidence for one.
00:26:08:29 - 00:26:37:12
I realize that one. Say, yeah, we'll say that's a little of both. Yeah. Linda, what about spirits can drain batteries and electronic devices? Oh, that's a hot. Really? Yes. Have you seen that? Quite a bit. Oh, yes. What? One location. I think I changed the batteries in my simple camera about three times in less than maybe 20 minutes.
00:26:37:14 - 00:27:03:11
Wow. And if there's one thing I'm hearing a lot is energy. Oh, yes. It's. Batteries are just feelings. I'm hearing a lot of that throughout all the conversations we've had so far. That's. Well, a good example would be like once again in Burl Manor. Honestly, we can tell when the spirits are done with us because the energy is just high for everybody and then it just goes flat.
00:27:03:14 - 00:27:24:24
So you can tell when they say, we've had enough for tonight or for today or whenever, and you can tell. And. All right, Sam, how about they take away from us, too? So I believe that when we're burnt out, they start feeling burnt out. You feel it, you back and forth and so. And cemeteries are the most haunted places.
00:27:24:24 - 00:27:51:27
Is that haunt or hoax? I would say that is hoax. Some apps 100% hoax. Your bathroom is probably the most haunted place if you want to consider cemeteries a haunted place. Just because spirits are everywhere, I mean, they are everywhere. They can be anywhere. Everywhere. So, no, I don't think there is a most haunted place or location.
00:27:51:29 - 00:28:17:11
No. Great. Thank you. And then, Linda, only people with special sensitivity can see spirits. That's a hoax because anybody can see a spirit. If the spirit wants you to see them, you'll see them. Okay, Tam, what about this one? Spirits can communicate through dreams.
00:28:17:13 - 00:28:49:04
Ooh, wow. That's a good one. I would say that is definitely plausible. So possible. Too many. Yes, there's been too much with that to ignore it. Where people will have the dream, with a family member or somebody they don't know. And it's a warning of, almost a premonition. So it's either a haunt spirit or a they're just psychic and know what's going to happen.
00:28:49:06 - 00:29:20:21
Interesting. All right, so, Linda, animals, especially cats, can sense ghosts. That would be I would say, of haunt, because most animals do have extra perception, whether it be a cat or a dog. They know when there's something different that we can't see, but they know it's there. Yeah, they seem to have a different sense. Yeah, yeah. Tam, full moons increase paranormal activity.
00:29:20:23 - 00:29:48:25
Full moons increase a lot of things. So, I mean, you watch the air, you watch, you know, so much that happens. Likes to happen on a full moon. The full moon affects the oceans and affects the tides. A lot of times it affects, the your your cycles. So why wouldn't it provide a different state of mind or a different energy within yourself to feel or, you know, react?
00:29:48:27 - 00:30:22:17
I could say yes. Yes. That's absolutely great. And Linda, our very last one, using a Ouija board, opens a portal that you cannot close. All right. Now that's open for debate because technically, I guess you could it does open a portal, but if it's done correctly, you can close it. So I guess they can't close. It would be considered a hoax, but it can open that portal that well, you might have trouble with.
00:30:22:20 - 00:30:45:26
So just know what you're doing. Yes. And take it serious. Great. Well, we keep in mind that this made by Parker Brothers. Good point. Damn good point. This is really been fascinating. I feel like I can talk to the both of you for a lot longer than 30 minutes, but I do want to thank the both of you for joining us for this special Halloween episode of The Catalyst.
00:30:45:28 - 00:31:11:18
And I do want to encourage our listeners to keep an eye out, for next paranormal classes. I'm sure we will be inviting groups back to partner with us, because we've heard really great things about the classes that we offer, the business community solution. So thank you for partnering with us. And, you can definitely check them out at their website as well to, see if this might be something you'd be interested in.
00:31:11:18 - 00:31:44:06
So their website is gripsghosthunt.com. And our website for potential classes are nicc.edu/solutions. Tim and Linda, thank you so much. Thank you Amy. Thank you very much. Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween yes yes. And thanks all of you. Yeah. Thank all of you for tuning in to The Catalyst. We hope you'll join us next time as we continue to share the stories of Northeast Iowa Community College and our community.
00:31:44:07 - 00:32:05:22
See you next time. Thanks for joining us on this episode of The Catalyst. If you enjoyed the conversation, make sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. So you never miss an episode. Want to learn more about NICC and the many ways we support our students, partners, and community? Visit nicc.edu for more resources and upcoming opportunities.
00:32:05:25 - 00:32:17:17
This podcast is produced by Northeast Iowa Community College and hosted by me, Amy Lasack with executive producer Tessa Hill, producer Travis Hunt, and graphic designer Ashley Konzen.